User talk:NFH

Welcome
Hi, welcome to Pay as you go sim with data Wiki! Thanks for your edit to the Belarus page.

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About your edits
Hello NFH.

I appreciate your corrections and amendments. Most of us here are not native English speakers. So these texts can use some more accurracy and style. We try to give some information here for the first time in English. That's why there are many local contributers we need to rely on.

Having written the EU section myself, I totally agree that in proper English the currency sign has to precede the amount like €40. Although there is a dispute whether there must be a space/blank between € 40. I think this is a matter of taste.

English is however hardly the only European language to do it like this. In most other languages the currency is followed by the amount like 40 €. So this is like goods are priced in most European countries. Copying price tables for some countries, it just looks strange to write €40 for France, Spain or Germany.

In many countries the currency symbol is replaced by the ISO code. This is because of convenience. On many keyboards most currency symbols are not included. To write GBP as symbol, every time plus a 3-digit number must be inserted. You are invited to replace it, if you like.

I will never understand, why in English it's done like this. Nobody reads "pounds 15" but 15 pounds or puts the cent sign in front of the number, but the $ is. The problem is, that advertising and labeling of prices is often done outside the UK/US differently. So I think in these countries we should keep it like it is as long it can be understood: €15, €15, 15€, 15 €, 15 euros, 15 Euro (the last style you can find in some German-speaking countries). It's not like the date US vs. UK style (mm/dd/yy or dd/mm/yy) which can lead to a lot of misunderstandings.

Correcting the EU/EEA section, you are right too. I only sticked to a slight inaccuracy to call it EU (incl. Liechtenstein, Iceland and Norway, which basically is EEA). Because, I simply think hardly anyone knows what the EEA actually is and which countries belong to it. EU is much more common knowledge. To be honest: how many readers having read the article now, you think, can tell whether Switzerland is a part of or not? If they use one of the cards featured in the section below in Switzerland they will be charged 23 times as much as published for the EU. Are you ready to take the blame for it?

The other stylistic improvements meet my approval. I have only one problem with your statements about SIM validity or expiry. There will be an article with more details in the glossary section. On the main page you have added these 2 sentences: "In many countries, it is possible to keep a SIM card active through a periodic balance deduction (e.g. a roaming SMS every 6 months) so that you can keep the SIM card and its balance for future trips to the same country. If you expect to return to a particular country in future, a SIM card's expiry policy can be more important than its usage charges."

I think we must stay absolutely general referring to all countries on the main page not getting much into specifics. Your statement of how to keep a SIM alive is simply not true to "many countries" but only to some mostly European countries. Outside of Europe it's a totally different story: in all over Asia, the Middle East, Africa and most of America your SIM life totally depends on the time and amount of your last top-up. There, in most cases, a specific top-up amount adds a certain life span to the SIM or plan. In many countries you need to top up as often as every 45 days. But now you have a problem: often international payment systems like credit cards are not accepted. Abroad, either you pile up top-up vouchers (but they have limited validity too and you need this SIM on international roaming to load) or you have another system to load it from abroad.

I can tell you I'm holding around 100 international SIM cards up to now and there are not many worth of keeping them alive. For example, a SIM in Thailand is almost free. Why should I try to keep it alive from abroad? But even with European SIMs which have the most generous expiry policy you are running into problems, as you simply can't top up for instance UK SIM cards from abroad without holding a UK-issued credit/debit card (or a voucher).

This is why I still haven't written the SIM validity/expiry section of the glossary yet. These policies are very diverse. Therefore, it's very hard to do justice to them all. To cut a long story short: I can't subscribe to your first statement about how to keep a SIM alive. It's true to some, but on a worldwide scale unfortunately not "many".

For example I actively "foster" my European roaming SIMs described in detail in the EU (or EEA) section. But I'm right now in Myanmar. A SIM is sold here at every street corner for 1500 kyat (or kyat 1500). That's €1.30 or $1.50. Why should I bother to keep it for next year, if I'll ever return at all?

You are invited to add your ideas how we can give a good survey about SIM expiry/validity. Hope to hear from you.

103.255.174.115 13:15, January 26, 2015 (UTC)


 * I think we should take our cue from Microsoft for style on numbers. Microsoft uses no space where a currency symbol precedes an amount, but does use a space before KB, MB, GB etc. So feel free to revert my changes of the latter. Please also feel free to edit my text about SIM expiry. I won't be offended if you change what I've written to make it more accurate. By the way, as in Ireland, the first English-speaking country in the Eurozone since 1999, the plural of euro is euro, just like German except lowercase. NFH (talk) 13:46, January 26, 2015 (UTC)

sorry, I didn't intend to add this anonymous

Wolfbln (talk) 13:50, January 26, 2015 (UTC)


 * No problem. Exactly the same problem happened to me. It logged me out unexpectedly. NFH (talk) 13:52, January 26, 2015 (UTC)

Just to get it right in the next countries i do. When I use ISO code, then a blank should be in between?

GBP 12 because GBP12 looks not so good. I'm right now doing Indonesia: I'd prefer 100,000 IDR or IDR 100,000 to IDR100,000 or 100,000IDR, just for clarity.

But generally, I think this secondary. I'm more concerned about contents. But when I write it, i can do it right anyway. You may check the glossary pages as well for style or inconsistencies. But don't be to hard. There are some generalizations esp. in technical aspects which are (like the EU) are "simplified". This 1st page is mostly done for Newbies to better get into the subject matter

Wolfbln (talk) 14:13, January 26, 2015 (UTC)


 * Some examples of correct format in English are: CHF 100, 100F, $0.12, $2, 50p, €40, 40 euro, 23 pounds.

protection of EU page
Hi NFH.

Sure, you can edit the EU article. I had to protect it as some users tried to add overpriced offers and I constantly had to delete them. I release the article from protection for non-anonymous users now.

It's not very much in detail yet about the situation past 30th of April when the new regulations will be implemented. I was waiting to see how the providers are going to react in the transition period. Some will go down to 5p/6c per MB, but some will stay at 23c/MB. It may makes sense to add the EU roaming rate to every local plan behind the domestic default rate in the national chapters, as this is not always clear.

I think some light data users will benefit from the new rules, but anyone using more than 200-300 MB is still paying considerable surcharges. I think basically a user has now the choice in Europe to

(1) to stay on your local EU-SIM on roaming - most convenient, but only good for light users

(2) to buy a local SIM card in the destination country - best for long stays, recurring visits, high usage

(3) to buy a "roaming SIM" like the ones featured in the article - best for visits to many EU countries in short time

I'm thinking of splitting the EU article in two parts: First part about regulations, validity, EU roaming rate in more detail, some shortcomings (geographical, foreign calls/texts etc.), ending with the choice above. Second part will be the featured roaming SIM cards. The existing ones may have to be replaced by better offers, if there will be such.

I'm a bit disappointed that not more offers have been given by the providers for higher data use yet. 500 MB are still for €30 at 6ct/MB and 115€ at 23ct/MB in the regulated rate. I'm aware that at least one Vodafone network will be scrapping all roaming surcharges selling all EU roaming at their domestic rate. I will be in Spain to verify this in 2 weeks and if right, their SIM will be recommended, I guess.

I'm very interested to have your opinion about this and to get more suggestions. Keep on supporting this WIKI. BTW. the main page (and some national chapters) are protected too, where there were problems like on the Crimean Peninsula. Just send me a message and I'll release it for a while.

WOLF Wolfbln (talk) 11:11, April 17, 2016 (UTC) (Admin)

Crimean Peninsula
Hi NFH.

Sure, you can edit this chapter. But please be cautious not to offend either the Russians nor the Ukrainians as this is a very delicate subject, as you might know.

Your English is better than mine, so go ahead and make some improvements. But as you will probably understand this forum is not the place to sort out political differences. That the Crimea got an own chapter was a kind of compromise between the parties and I'm perfectly all right with it and most Russians and Ukrainians can live with it now as it seems.

So please don't say that the Crimea is a part of either country, but it's without any doubt "under Russian administration" now, regulated by the Russian phone regulator and connected to the Russian phone system (+7). And please don't refer in any way to the process how this happened as this is seen very differently on either side. I've found edits ranging from occupation to liberation already.

I will open Crimea for registered users. Thanks for your edit in advance.

WOLF Wolfbln (talk) 12:17, November 20, 2016 (UTC) (admin)

About GiffGaff
Hi NFH.

Thanks for editing some articles here. I really appreciate it. You reinstated the bonus/referral scheme of giffgaff. I thought that users were losing interest as it's not as good as it used to be.

But one thing I can't accept here and I'm fighting against is that users who benefit from a SIM card (in some way) as well as owners of WiFi rental stores try to boost the advantages of their product and forget the rest. I think our imparciality is our strengh. I can easily put a link to a sales website for some SIMs here and make some money, but I don't do it.


 * I agree that we don't want pages littered with commercial links. But in the case of giffgaff, readers are getting £5 for free, and the existing giffgaff member isn't getting anything any more. For example, my link is one of them and I reached my 15 referrals a long time ago. It's better to include a link with £5 free credit than one without £5 free credit. NFH (talk) 18:51, November 21, 2016 (UTC)

Let's take giffgaff's validity account: It's 6 month, if you do any activity. This is the norm in the UK with major providers. But Vodafone and ASDA give you 9 months.

So it's simply not true, that GiffGaff has one of the best validities around.

You may refer to this survey: http://kenstechtips.com/index.php/payg-inactivity-account-termination-and-credit-expiry

Thanks for your understanding, that I tone it down a bit

And I really like how you improved the Crimea article :-)

Wolfbln (talk) 18:42, November 21, 2016 (UTC) (admin)

I totally agree with your edits. The bonus scheme can stay as users may benefit from it too and the 6 month validity as well. It looks to me the usual period in Britain and not something special.

Wolfbln (talk) 18:56, November 21, 2016 (UTC)


 * I don't think that Vodafone's expiry period genuinely 9 months. The longest with any network, including Vodafone, is 6 months or 180 days. Most networks will reinstate lost credit for a period after this if the customer contacts them quickly. Vodafone publish that this grace period is 90 days after the 180 days have finished. Given that a Vodafone customer has lot of hassle after the 180-day expiry has passed, I think we should say that it's 180 days and not 270 days. NFH (talk) 19:02, November 21, 2016 (UTC)


 * Hi again.
 * I added validity terms with most providers when I redid this article some time ago. As I haven't tested all the providers, I referred to http://kenstechtips.com/index.php/payg-inactivity-account-termination-and-credit-expiry#Vodafone
 * It looks well researched and updated.
 * What Vodafone is concerned, it's mentioned in detail:
 * ===Vodafone===

Vodafone Pay As You Go customers need to top-up their phone or make a chargeable outbound activity at least once every 270 days. You’ll be sent a reminder by SMS after 180 days of inactivity on the account.

For more information, please refer to clauses 6(a)3 and 6(b) of the Vodafone Pay As You Go Airtime Conditions: 6a. We can suspend (in other words bar), restrict or stop providing the services (all or part of them) in the following circumstances: … 3. You choose not to use the service for 180 consecutive days. Using the service means making any chargeable outbound activity such as making an outbound call (excluding calls to 191), sending an SMS, using data or topping up your account.

6b. If we suspend the mobile equipment because you have chosen not to use the services (as defined in 6a3 above) for 180 consecutive days we will send you an SMS notifying you that you should top up your account or make a chargeable outbound call (but not calls to 191), send a chargeable SMS or use your data within the next 90 days. If you then fail to make any chargeable outbound calls (but not calls to 191), send a chargeable SMS, use your data or top up your account within 90 days from the date of the SMS because you have not kept to this agreement or not used the services for 270 consecutive days, we will disconnect your mobile equipment, and you will lose any credit held on your account.

I still think that we can say it's 270 days until the SIM is suspended. But we can be more precise in saying 180 days plus 90 days of grace period.

Wolfbln (talk) 19:20, November 21, 2016 (UTC)

About mobile page
Hi NFH.

Thanks for telling me the broken starter for the mobile page. I actually use a laptop or set the desktop version on my mobile. But we should care for it, as >50% of the users approach this site by a mobile device.

Unfortunately, Wikia/Fandom has made some changes for the worse: This page can't be directly linked anymore to a mobile version of the starter page. The mobile editor was pretty good in transforming the desktop page to the mobile version and I was happy with the result.

As an Admin I have some ways to change the mobile version now. I can add pics linked to special articles or categories. That's all. This really sucks!

So as a first stand-by solution I copied the desktop starter page (as the original can't be linked for whatever reason) and linked it to the mobile page with a SIM card icon. To feature our countries pages (which are our core contents) I copied them again and added a world map linked to the survey of the articles.

It's a first solution. Wikia wants it very graphical. Every link for the mobile site can only start from a pic, not a text. I can't influence the "trending" selection at the bottom either. It comes automatically and can't be thrown out. For me, it's really hard to improve this. To add more pics than this slider now is only possible through categories.

We can do more with categories, something I haven't done so far. But this means we need to categorize and sub-categorize the countries according to region and put each into one category. Something which you have been highly critical about. Then we would have a windows-tile style of the regions: Europe, Asia, Africa etc... and this links to tiles of the countries again. But I don't like this too as the editor takes the first pic from every country as a reference pic (like done at "Trending" now). This would imply to work with flags of the countries instead in every Basics chapter....

I really would have liked to add more countries and now i'm stuck with these format issues again. May be you have an idea to improve this.

Cheers, WOLF Wolfbln (talk) 23:52, November 26, 2016 (UTC) (admin)

Edits
Hi NFH

Thanks for your improvements and your efforts to maintain some style here.

Two edits, I don't agree so much:

double negative = positive (in view of preceding "not")

in English that's often not true. Take the Rolling Stones song I don't get no satisfaction. You can hardly argue, that Mick Jagger is singing about getting satisfaction in this song. In English double negative often means very negative.


 * It is considered to be bad English to use a double negative in this way. Mick Jagger's song is overtly bad grammar, which wouldn't be used even in everyday informal speech by most people, and never in formal writing by anyone. Just because you hear something said by lots of native English speakers, don't assume it is correct English. NFH (talk) 08:45, March 11, 2017 (UTC)

''The day starts at midnight (00:00). Midnight at the end of a day is the following day.''

That's ridiculous too. The day starts and ends at midnight. Anybody who says at "until midnight on the same day" means exactly this and not one day more. I try to avoid the 24-hour clock here as it's totally unknown in some English speaking countries like the US and use the am/pm system instead. But this always makes issues with midnight or 12:00 noon as midnight is hard to quote on a 12-hour clock (see here).


 * I only changed it back because it was technically more correct previously. Feel free to change it again to midnight, as the intended meaning is obvious and potentially clearer. NFH (talk) 08:45, March 11, 2017 (UTC)

But I can live with your changes as they don't affect the context.

Thanks for your cooperation.


 * Thanks for raising these points. NFH (talk) 08:45, March 11, 2017 (UTC)

Wolfbln (talk) 23:54, March 10, 2017 (UTC) (admin)

Regarding your MegaFon edits
Please do not post 2-years-old information.

Starting from 1 January 2017 it is back 90 days in all regions.

http://corp.megafon.ru/press/news/vologda/20161230-0930.html

https://moscow.megafon.ru/help/faq/sohranit-nomer.html

https://moscow.megafon.ru/help/services/vosstanovlenie_nomera.html

Ipswitch (talk) 12:03, April 12, 2017 (UTC)


 * Thank you very much for bringing this excellent news. But you made two errors:


 * 1) You failed to populate the edit summary to show why you were reverting my edits. If you don't give a reason, nobody will know why you are doing it, and it will be reversed.
 * 2) You reverted the entire edit, including useful new information, rather than just changing "90" to "45".
 * Please take more care in future. NFH (talk) 12:14, April 12, 2017 (UTC)

Validity of SIM cards
Hi NFH.

Thanks for editing the Validity chapter. I agree that there was some double information and it gets to the point better now. But I needed to restore some information which I consider essential.

I got rid of the table as complex tables don't look good on the mobile editor. And more than 1/2 of our visitors use this access. You can see what I mean when you check your edit hereon a smartphone. Unfortunately, tables like these are not well displayed. I would like to have much more of them.

But this is a format issue. It now becomes clear what the suspensions of SIM cards are concerned, but the article is a bit murky now about the "other" validity: those of the recharges. With some providers it's the same, but for most providers it differs immensely.

The problem this 2nd validity doesn't match the first what categories are concerned. In the Balance Increase approach we have providers that follow a top-up validity is equal to plan validity policy, but others give you a much longer grace period. In the Balance Decrease method we have providers, that have a clear validity of the top-ups (like Lycamobile) different from the SIM and others, that have an "endless validity" as long as the SIM remains active (like Three or most European providers).

So from a perspective of a user, he/she is concerned about losing money. And he/she doesn't give a damm why, as he/she will do it both ways: when the top-up expires and when the whole SIM is terminated. So I suggest not to focus only on plan validity, but also top-up validity and try to perhaps integrate this into the Balance Increase/Decrease categories.

What do you think??? Shouldn't we try to move this 2nd validity more to the top of the article and explain it together with SIM validity. If you look closer on the Balance Increase approach, it's not so far from what Lycamobile does with a top-up validity of 3 months and a plan validity of 6 months. Many providers who employ the Balance Decrease category do actually the same: a shorter validity for recharges, a longer for the whole plan. This is clearly different to the most European providers who give the same validity for top-ups and plans (what Three calls "forever"). I know you focused on the activities to prevent plan suspension. But what the Balance Decrease is concerned the necessary action is the same: simply refill.

For Lycamobile I can show you that your "categories" just give the wrong message. Again, Lyca has a recharge validity of 90 days and plan validity of 180 days in most European markets. You've put them into the 2nd cat. as Balance Decrease. That's technically right. But it suggests, that as long as some activity is done within 90 days the SIM will stay alive. But this simply can't be done as the credit has expired soon before and thus it feels more like a Balance Increase provider. For UK providers, this is shown here on the first table.

Wolfbln (talk) 20:10, April 21, 2017 (UTC) (admin)

UK edits
Hello NFH.

Thank you for your great contributions so far and your care for the proper English language here on the Wiki. As most contributors are non-native speakers here, you need to be indulgent. I learn a lot from your lessons, but I mostly correct the edits only for language when they are incomprehensible even to me.

I have two slight problems with edits from you in the UK article. You added that: "'' Being a British company, Lycamobile applies its UK expiry policy in most of the countries in which it operates, which often gives an advantage over local networks' expiry policies." ''

I would like to get rid of this sentence as it's only true to a few countries and it really doesn't matter for the UK article what they do in other countries. You are right in countries like the USA, where it's hard to pause a SIM card as you are always on a mandatory combo plan and Lyca is one of the few exceptions. But in countries like Germany, Netherlands and many more where SIM cards stay valid for at least a year and credit forever (as long as the SIM is valid), Lyca (and some others like Lebara) are the worst providers what validity is concerned. So we just might get rid of this sentence.
 * I'm not bothered if you want to remove this sentence, as the UK article is not the best place for such a comment, as you correctly point out. The key advantage that I see of Lycamobile's expiry policy over other countries' networks is that it doesn't require periodic top-ups to keep the SIM card and mobile number fully active. Are you saying that this is also the case with most networks  in Germany and the Netherlands? NFH (talk) 08:40, April 29, 2017 (UTC)

The second section I'd like to take off is your addition about American Express UK: " '' For two weeks every December, American Express UK runs its  Shop Small promotion, whereby a purchase of at least £10 at participating small merchants generates a £5 statement credit, once per registered Amex card per merchant per annum. Participating merchants include thousands of newsagents and convenience stores that sell mobile top-ups. By purchasing £10 top-up vouchers at multiple merchants with a UK-issued Amex card, your top-ups will be half price. This is a particularly cheap way of topping up on an annual basis if you maintain a UK SIM card in the long term." ''

First, we need to agree that we make this Wiki for foreigners, not UK citizens what 98% of the world population are. It's legally not allowed to get an AmEx UK card, if you don't have a UK "home address". I know that you can "fake" this address. But when you disobey T&Cs you should at least mention it, so users are warned about what they are doing. The eligibilties for an AmEx UK Basic card are: UK home address, UK bank or building society account, no bad debt history, 18 years of age. The first two or three requirements are hard to meet for someone who is not living in the UK. They are even harder for better AmEx cards. I know there are some prepaid "gift cards" as well, but with AmEx they incur a lot of fees. So I don't think that you actually mean them.

We need to make sure that recommendations given in the articles can be (theoretically) enjoyed by everyone. If there are exclusions, they should be stated. But if all foreigners are excluded, I will need to take it off. Given the problems many users face when they want to top-up an UK SIM card with a credit card not issued in the UK, we should rather add solutions that are accessible for them. Revolut is one of them, Curve may be another. This makes much more sense that to add a reduction scheme nobody outside the UK can use.


 * There are many scenarios that you haven't taken into account, for example:
 * A non-UK resident might have UK banking facilities after having lived in the UK in the past.
 * Amex have a scheme whereby they will open an account for you in another country (e.g. the UK) based on your credit history in your home country. Several UK Amex cards have no annual fee. It's also possible to obtain a pseudo-bank account in the UK such as Revolut without being a resident.
 * We already mention the problem of UK networks refusing to accept non-UK cards. Therefore the scenario of having to ask a UK resident to top up a SIM card already exists. Plenty of readers of this article will know a UK resident with an Amex card who will be more than willing to use this offer on their behalves, given the Membership Rewards or airmiles etc generated by expenditure.
 * I disagree that this should be a wiki only for foreigners or non-residents, despite this category comprising the vast majority of readers. There will be former UK residents who want to keep their cherished UK mobile number and a balance on their SIM card for future visits and residency in the UK.
 * We shouldn't be having to think of and list all the ways that someone can take advantage of the information in this article. Just because we can't think of all the ways, it doesn't mean that they don't exist and that readers won't find the ways for themselves. We can present information and then it's up to readers to use their initiative to take advantage of the information in their own ways. NFH (talk) 08:40, April 29, 2017 (UTC)

I hope you understand my point and I'm looking forward to new contributions

Wolfbln (talk) 20:17, April 28, 2017 (UTC) (admin)